And another thing....

[oneirophrenia]

Dear Other Gods, do I hate "fanfic."

Even Ghostbusters fanfic.

People who write fanfic should be shot. They are a complete and utter waste of talent, as a surprising number of them actually have fairly decent linguistic skills. But why would you waste that talent on writing about some Final Fantasy character climbing into a Maaaaaaaaagickal Rocketship and blasting off to the World of Warcraft to bring peace, love, and mako crystals to the Gnomes and the Anal Spelunkers?

USE YOUR IMAGINATIONS, PEOPLE. You can create your very own characters and worlds, you know....

Just no fucking dragons, please. And no vampires. Dragons and vampires are so done it's disgusting.

Read some China Mieville or Caitlin R. Kiernan or H. P. Lovecraft, already. GAWD!

Comments

[greygirlbeast.livejournal.com]

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<<Read some China Mieville or Caitlin R. Kiernan or H. P. Lovecraft>>

Um...does this include my fan fic?

And what about all my "professional" fan fic - stories set in worlds created by Neil Gaiman, Michael Moorcock, James O'Barr, Bram Stoker, White Wolf, various DC comics authors, and George Romero?

And, for that matter, how does one avoid categorizing fiction based on HPL's mythos as a sort of fan fic?

[oneirophrenia.livejournal.com]

Actually, I've never actually read any of your "fanfic," so I honestly can't say how well it would stand up to others--but chances are it would blow most of the *other* fanfic I've ever read out of the water.

Surprisingly enough, the only fanfic writers I've ever known have all dealt with either goofy Japanese RPG worlds or really horrible television sci-fi series (like the *original* Battlestar Gallactica)...and at least 99% of the fanfic available on the net--I've a number of friends who've pointed me to these sites over the years, for whatever reasons--seems to deal with the same: silly RPG nonsense or terrible 70's/80's sci-fi. The only non-RPG/TV-scifi fanfic I've ever read was based around Ghostbusters, and it was so abysmally bad it made Ghostbusters II (which I hated as much, if not more, as I loved the first one) look like the Second Coming of Gozer!

Writing fiction set in a world created or defined by someone else doesn't really qualify as "fan" fiction to me, though...mainly due to the word "professional." You are a professional writer--one of the best I know, if not *the* best--and, even more importantly, an insanely creative sort...so when you turn your hand to working within another author's creation you actually set out to do something creative and original. Most "amateur" fanfic authors simply do not have the skill to take anyone's source material and do more than just rehash it endlessly like cows chewing all the flavor out of a literary cud. That's why so much "Cthulhu Mythos" fiction is so unbearable--and I include many of the "founders" of the Mythos in that lump as well, particularly Lin Carter, August Derleth, and Robert Bloch.

As a writing teacher, I absolutely forbid my beginning students from ever using another person's characters, worlds, or whatever. So many of the young adults in my writing groups want to use pre-built characters and situations taken from comics, video games, or the like...because they think it's easier for them to work with those characters--and it is. It's *too* easy for them. They don't have to think outside of those characters or situations--they can just change the name of The Crow or the city where the events take place and, bang, instant fanfic story. I demand that they exercise their imaginations first and foremost, and invent worlds and people from whole cloth. This gives a writer perspective. Once you have developed a bit of depth to your artistic vision, then you can start adventuring within others' creations...because you'll be a fellow imaginative explorer with the original author, rather than someone just aping them because you want to see more doom in Doom III!

Damn.... I may be teaching a creative writing class at Penn State next summer. I simply must fly you up here to talk to those folks! :)

[trhodes.livejournal.com]

Sir, I would like to take this comment, and his post, and merge them. Of course, then it may not flow well together.

--
Tom Rhodes

[oneirophrenia.livejournal.com]

1. The wonder of the Intarweb is that it supports user-centric folk arts such as fanfic and (*shudder*) "filk" by making it easy to publish said arts for the enjoyment of others within a community of likeminded readers/listeners/etc. But the *second* you toss any kind of art--literary, visual, musical, etc.--onto the net, it becomes fair game to be criticized by the likes of me, and I will not hesitate one second to tear someone limb for limb for producing what *I* regard as "total crap." I myself am completely aware that anything of my *own* that gets flung up onto the web is open to exactly the same criticism. Hell, I actively expect it! Folk arts are good, but they are in no way immune to criticism.

2. There is *no* such thing as a truly "original" idea. In fact, there are maybe fifteen to twenty truly different plots that repeat ad infinitum in a wide variety of different guises throughout ALL fiction, regardless of genre (and most supposed NONfiction as well). And, as I like to say, if you're a writer and you haven't blatantly stolen *something*--a character, a scene, a story, whatever--from some other writer whom you admire, you're not doing you're job properly. (Allusions are, after all, just canonized examples of stealing others' ideas for your own work.) But, at the same time, if you don't do something even vaguely new and interesting with the materials you are collecting, as it were, then you are a hack. At best. An utter plagiarist at worst. End of story. HPL, after all, just scrounged up a whole bunch of stock images and plotlines from world mythology, pulp fiction, and New England Gothic tales and sewed them all together to create his Mythos...yet he did such an artful job at arranging all the frankensteinian little pieces, borrowings, hints & allegations, allusions, and caricatures into a work *entirely his own* that the final product clearly transcended being merely the sum of disparate parts. THAT is what an ideal writer does. The booby prize belongs to those who just rudely jam together a few different, but somewhat similar, ideas and themes and call the mishmash an "original take."

3. Most TV shows are crap. The few that are even vaguely watchable--and ST:TNG was definitely more than vaguely good, it was actually DAMN good!--are so because the producers cared enough about their program to vet incoming scripts for creativity and interest. Sure, some boners got through, especially in that first season of ST:TNG when they were essentially just remaking the dumbest episodes from the original series and improving them to be not-so-dumb...but for the most part, the scriptwriters were working to an established set of standards. Fanfic communities rarely have any kind of standards that I can recognize. That's not to say that they don't have standards AT ALL...but, remember, I've worked in publishing for years, *and* I am an English teacher. I am a HUGE believe in standards, but freely admit that *my* standards are a lot different from those that may exist in folk-art communities. Mine are actually pretty loose in most things, but where they are strict, they are savagely, inflexibly so. And they just happen to be better than anyone else's as well. :)

[oneirophrenia.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know! I was just using your response as a platform from which to babble further and help refine my ideas. :) I've discovered one of the best ways to help me refine my thoughts about ANY subject is to make some kind of horribly inflammatory statement (which always contains a seed of the basic truth: in this case, that I really don't like *most* fanfic) and then read what others reply with, so that their replies can help me actually refine my thoughts on the subject.

[oneirophrenia.livejournal.com]

Someone wrote Nyarlathotep, the Crawling Chaos, slash fiction about us waaaaaaaaay back in the day, you know. :) I think it had something to do with you and me getting violated by Azathoth's or Cthulhu's tentacles--kind of like La Blue Girl meets The Gate meets the poetry of Arthur Rimbaud.

Man, I wish I could find that story.

[rufus.livejournal.com]

dear god, someone RPS'd you? eeurgh. That would be awful. If it's any tiny consolation to you, Real Person Slash is (from what I can gather) considered to be tacky, awful and rude in the more refined fanfic circles.

[beeporama.livejournal.com]

Oh shit, I'd been joking about that... someone actually did it? Crazy.

[dorothymonkey.livejournal.com]

Inspired by this thread, I am going to write some TSN fanfic where you and Alexx battle dinosaurs.

It will be awesome.

[rufus.livejournal.com]

I'll leave you out of my incipient fan-fic filter then, shall I?

*chuckle*

I don't know what's come over me either, I've avoided fan-fic myself for years, but . . . . not any more, I guess.

Also I think you may have been reading some truly craptacular fan fiction. My brain has recently been eaten by the Harry Potter fandom and there are some *damn* good writers out there. (And some bad ones, too, ye gods, which may be why *I* started, a kind of need to clarify for myself that I still have It, whatever It might be, and I can do better than *that*.)

Why Heather Can Write

[lyssabard.livejournal.com]

Ok, P, I couldn't disagree with you more on this. :)

While you may loathe the content of some fanfic, and gods, yes, some of it does make the eyes bleed, how can you deny it's positive effect on encouraging writing and media literacy?

I didn't think I'd have to point you towards Henry Jenkins, who's been writing on this stuff for years, but...

http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/04/02/wo_jenkins020604.asp?p=1

Sure, there's fandom wankery. Sure there are things that squick folks--but people are writing and *using*--often thinking critically--about popular culture, and I can't call that a bad thing. Nor do I think it belittles folks' talents or creativity. (And I have a feeling you spoke on this, but I have only skimmmed the commentary here.)

Put simply, that which encourages writing does not waste talent, but practices it--whether they are doing it in a manner you approve of or not, dear. :)

Re: Why Heather Can Write

[lyssabard.livejournal.com]

Oh, and on standards: A number of communities out there have definite standards for submissions, and demand beta readers--many of whom have editing or publishing experience (I mean, we do this because we like to write!) before printing submissions. It's a mixed bag, yes, but there *are* standards, ratings, etc.

I write the occasional fanfic blurble-it's a hobby, I enjoy it. I will also say I've read appropriated fiction that reads 1000 times better than the author's orginal work.

Anyway, for me, it shows folks are reading, working with, and thinking about the implications behind the texts. Gods, the academic geekery around metafiction on some of this is knee deep.

So...again, don't discount it as useless or a waste of talent.
*pokes at that Luddite spot* You are better than old skool authoritative wankery.

*HUGS*


Lys- who would have a huge academic discourse with you on this, but is slaving at IBM at the moment. :)

(Will I see you Friday? Please? I'll be at Cal around 11am til sometime after the service).